Episode 265
O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000)
This week we are joined by Mike from the MDX Podcast to discuss the greatest adaptation of the Odyssey ever put to film. Not that bloated 7MM IMAX ego stroking project of Christopher Nolan of course, but the Coen Brothers' 2000 film, "O Brother, Where Art Thou?". We discuss why this is a truer and closer adaptation of the epic poem, the difference between fantasy and myth, what it means to be a dapper Dan man, and the politics of depression era US.
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Transcript
Track 1: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Bill,
Speaker:Track 1: back again with another film discussion from the West.
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Speaker:Track 1: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. Now, on to the show.
Speaker:Track 1: This week on Left to the Objective, we are going to be discussing a film based
Speaker:Track 1: on Homer's poem The Odyssey, but
Speaker:Track 1: not that little-known small-jump budget production by Christopher Nolan.
Speaker:Track 1: Instead, we'll be talking about Oh Brother Roar Out There, the Coen Brothers
Speaker:Track 1: film from 2000. Film stars George Clooney, John Turturro, Tim Blake,
Speaker:Track 1: Nelson, Charles Durning, Michael Badalucco, John Goodman, Holly Hunter,
Speaker:Track 1: Daniel Von Bergen, and many others.
Speaker:Track 1: With us to discuss is a friend to the show mike of mdx pods welcome back to
Speaker:Track 1: the show and of course evan and ward good.
Speaker:Track 3: To be back thanks guys.
Speaker:Track 1: Thank you for joining us.
Speaker:Track 2: Hello, everyone.
Speaker:Track 1: I did, full disclosure, completely forget that Mike would be joining us.
Speaker:Track 1: And it was a surprise when I opened the screen and there was his face.
Speaker:Track 1: And I was like, hey, that's cool. We got a guest.
Speaker:Track 2: I told you.
Speaker:Track 1: Listen, I've had a lot of shit going on lately, okay? Listen,
Speaker:Track 1: Warren and I have both had really busy shit going on, right?
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah, I've been traveling and I'm about to travel again, all right?
Speaker:Track 2: I, yeah. You don't have to apologize to me.
Speaker:Track 3: No, no. Evan, you need to apologize to all of us.
Speaker:Track 1: Okay.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: I expect a hand-delivered note.
Speaker:Track 4: Evan's making us feel bad.
Speaker:Track 3: I don't feel welcome as a guest.
Speaker:Track 2: Oh, man.
Speaker:Track 3: You're breaking Zeus's law.
Speaker:Track 2: Breaking Zeus's law.
Speaker:Track 1: All right. So why are we here to talk about O Brother War out there?
Speaker:Track 1: Is there a reason that we're here to talk about this movie in particular? What brought this on?
Speaker:Track 2: Well, let me...
Speaker:Track 1: Says the person who literally watched it and then said, we need to do an episode.
Speaker:Track 1: But ignore that. Why are we here?
Speaker:Track 2: Did you see the Nolan's version?
Speaker:Track 3: I did. I've seen it twice. I went opening week and then I saw it with my wife a few days ago.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah. So part of this that came up with, obviously that's the discourse in a
Speaker:Track 2: lot of parts of the internet right now.
Speaker:Track 2: We actually do have a small, more like a, we call it like box office drop episode
Speaker:Track 2: that'll be coming before you listen to this one You can hear us talk about Nolan's
Speaker:Track 2: version, and now you can hear us talk about the,
Speaker:Track 2: gold standard edition version of Homer's The Odyssey.
Speaker:Track 2: And I thought that was why we should talk about it, I guess,
Speaker:Track 2: because maybe people don't even realize this movie is a telling of The Odyssey,
Speaker:Track 2: or people haven't seen it in a while. I mean, it's been 26 years.
Speaker:Track 2: For some people, that's like a really long time, and so I don't know. Does everyone here?
Speaker:Track 1: Not everybody rewatches this on an annual basis? Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: I probably watch this every year, every two years. Although like owning this
Speaker:Track 3: movie on Blu-ray was kind of like an odyssey adventure. So like I had this movie
Speaker:Track 3: a long time ago and somebody borrowed it and never gave it back.
Speaker:Track 3: Then I ordered it on Blu-ray and somebody stole it off my doorstep.
Speaker:Track 3: And so I ordered it again right when I moved and forgot to update the address. So it happened again.
Speaker:Track 1: Wow.
Speaker:Track 3: And so like I've actually bought this movie physically like five times.
Speaker:Track 2: Nice. so no one can write a story about your dvd coming home next time yeah
Speaker:Track 2: there we go i was actually telling them both and i'm shocked that there isn't
Speaker:Track 2: a 4k version of this yet like a remastered version i i don't know.
Speaker:Track 1: I don't think i think remastering this in 4k would actually be a disservice
Speaker:Track 1: to it i think that would be a mistake.
Speaker:Track 3: I agree like and.
Speaker:Track 2: Then somebody.
Speaker:Track 4: And they're gonna fuck up the color grading too the color grading in this is incredible.
Speaker:Track 1: In general i think remastering and upgrading to 4K is bullshit on its face.
Speaker:Track 1: Like in general, I think it's completely unnecessary and a total waste of time, energy, and money.
Speaker:Track 1: But this movie in particular, I think, would be detrimental to the actual product, the art.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, I agree.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, I can accept that. I mean, the only reason I would say the reason for
Speaker:Track 2: me to have a new version of it is just because it's been a while since they
Speaker:Track 2: released it, and they probably have other footage or things they could put on
Speaker:Track 2: there that would just be cool to watch.
Speaker:Track 3: Have they done any remasters of the Coen Brothers movies? Really?
Speaker:Track 2: The Big Lebowski.
Speaker:Track 3: The Big Lebowski.
Speaker:Track 2: And Old Country for Old Men, No Country for Old Men, they did.
Speaker:Track 2: There's a criteria in relation to that. I think those are one of the only two.
Speaker:Track 1: Didn't Fargo get over this?
Speaker:Track 2: No, I don't think so. Their first movie did. I'm blanking on a name at the moment.
Speaker:Track 4: I don't know. While you think, I'm going to go off. Please.
Speaker:Track 4: But this movie doesn't need a remaster. More additional bonus content?
Speaker:Track 4: Absolutely. But do you really need to see the depiction of Depression-era America
Speaker:Track 4: in the South in 4K? is that what's going to do it for you?
Speaker:Track 3: Come on right no i it doesn't i don't think it's necessary and like when you
Speaker:Track 3: look at things that have been done like uh like the true lies 4k remake
Speaker:Track 3: like everybody's skin got weirdly smooth and everything on it and that's like
Speaker:Track 3: james cameron who's willing to put the money and time into it,
Speaker:Track 3: so like upressing this is just not not worth it to me.
Speaker:Track 4: Yes it's not worth it and it's not necessary like nolan's adaptation.
Speaker:Track 3: All right so we're getting to it all right yeah.
Speaker:Track 4: I figured that was the best.
Speaker:Track 3: Transition we're gonna get right seamless.
Speaker:Track 2: My brother we don't seamless like we don't we don't since only half of us have
Speaker:Track 2: seen his version we don't need to
Speaker:Track 2: like you know belabor the point of what people think of that one you can,
Speaker:Track 2: we'll probably have another episode in the future where all of us do that one
Speaker:Track 2: but this movie is basically perfect in every way.
Speaker:Track 1: I don't have to like i know this is going to sound like presumptuous my argument
Speaker:Track 1: that the christopher nolan adaptation is inferior to this version and,
Speaker:Track 1: Just in general, see, I don't think that this is the greatest adaptation of the Odyssey.
Speaker:Track 1: What I think this is, is this is the greatest adaptation of the Odyssey,
Speaker:Track 1: for a Western American audience by a American and English director because of
Speaker:Track 1: the nature of the Odyssey and what the Odyssey is, which is a,
Speaker:Track 1: mythological story centered on cultural tropes.
Speaker:Track 1: And just telling the story of the Odyssey as it was written by Homer to a Western
Speaker:Track 1: audience of people, you're telling a story of a 3,000-year-old dead culture
Speaker:Track 1: with cultural touchstones you do not know.
Speaker:Track 1: Oh Brother, Why Out There is the story of the Odyssey as depicted and framed
Speaker:Track 1: by American cultural touchstones.
Speaker:Track 3: That's why- By people who never read the original version of it in any way.
Speaker:Track 3: They'd only seen the Armand Asante version before making this. and didn't originally.
Speaker:Track 1: Intend to make this it it started out as just a few references and then they
Speaker:Track 1: actually backtracked and then went further to develop it as an adaptation the
Speaker:Track 1: odyssey because it wasn't intended to do.
Speaker:Track 3: That that's why tim blake nelson thought he got the script because that's what
Speaker:Track 3: his degree is in is in like the classics and he's neighbors with i don't remember
Speaker:Track 3: which one of the coen brothers but he's neighbors with one of them
Speaker:Track 3: and they he thought they sent them the script to like analyze it as like an
Speaker:Track 3: expert on the odyssey and they're like no we want you in this movie,
Speaker:Track 3: so like that's pretty interesting he's also the only person who sings in this
Speaker:Track 3: movie that's all he got a grammy for it he's the only actor yeah it's funny
Speaker:Track 3: too because he thought about.
Speaker:Track 4: He knew the coen brothers like pretty well before this movie and uh he thought
Speaker:Track 4: about trying to leverage his friendship but he was like no i'm not gonna do
Speaker:Track 4: that i'm not gonna try to call in a favor to make it happen and then they.
Speaker:Track 3: Offered it to him drop it to him.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah he did,
Speaker:Track 4: he auditioned to be in Big Lebowski, but he didn't make the cut.
Speaker:Track 2: Have you heard the other story that Clooney also took the role without having,
Speaker:Track 2: read the script? He's like, yeah, I'll do it.
Speaker:Track 2: and they sent him the script and his i think it was his cousin or something
Speaker:Track 2: took his uncle all of the his uncle yes he took like all the curse words out
Speaker:Track 2: of it and he didn't realize they were in the movie until like they were starting to,
Speaker:Track 2: do this like shoot the the film
Speaker:Track 2: itself which i think is great and he is they're all incredible in this.
Speaker:Track 3: You know what george clinton specifically it's interesting so like obviously
Speaker:Track 3: we've all mentioned how many times we've watched this film on letterbox So when
Speaker:Track 3: I went to like log that I watched it for the pod, I, I had it as a five star ranking before.
Speaker:Track 3: And like, I actually dipped it to a four and a half and then put it back to
Speaker:Track 3: a five, back to four and a half, five only because of George Clooney,
Speaker:Track 3: because like, yes, everybody is a little over the top in this, you know, it's a,
Speaker:Track 3: you know, a larger than life film, but he kind of, there's the first 10 minutes
Speaker:Track 3: of the movie, he's almost a little weird.
Speaker:Track 3: And like, it kind of took me out of the movie. It was like, no way,
Speaker:Track 3: this is just the way the movie is. And then I went back into it.
Speaker:Track 3: But George Clooney actually almost made me take off half a star.
Speaker:Track 4: So, like, I think it was him that joked with, like, the other two main actors
Speaker:Track 4: afterwards where they're like, they need to fucking pull our SAG cards for this fucking movie.
Speaker:Track 4: Because, like, they fully acknowledged, like, how over the top they were,
Speaker:Track 4: like, how much they were overacting the entirety of the movie.
Speaker:Track 4: And it got to a point, like, in interviews, you can see him talking about,
Speaker:Track 4: like, yeah, we were just, like, amping each other up, seeing who could, like.
Speaker:Track 3: Interact more later.
Speaker:Track 1: I was just to say, he...
Speaker:Track 1: more than i feel like more.
Speaker:Track 4: Than cluny.
Speaker:Track 1: Really he they turned him into hornetote like he i thought she was a hornetote.
Speaker:Track 4: And even tuturo leading up into that when he shoves his fucking entire hand
Speaker:Track 4: down his fucking throat and then does a fucking waddle down to the fucking thing
Speaker:Track 4: because he decided his character pete has hemorrhoids and he can't run that fast,
Speaker:Track 4: like that's not a plot point anywhere but he decided no he gets hemorrhage so
Speaker:Track 4: this is how he has to walk that's not shocking that's not shocking that's not shocking.
Speaker:Track 1: Decided that uh fantastic.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah i mean like he's i don't remember at this point how many films that each
Speaker:Track 2: had been in but especially clooney and even more so john tuturo is they know
Speaker:Track 2: what the cohen brothers want and it's funny you mentioned the overacting thing
Speaker:Track 2: because i can't imagine they would overact more than they were being told by
Speaker:Track 2: joel nathan cohen like i would think that that's what they wanted because they
Speaker:Track 2: don't you know they don't like you to
Speaker:Track 2: to change the script you know ad-libbing like isn't a thing for them so i i
Speaker:Track 2: have to think they wanted it to be overacted,
Speaker:Track 2: right so it looks you would think.
Speaker:Track 4: Because how the coen brothers are like very script dominant where it's like.
Speaker:Track 2: No no.
Speaker:Track 4: It needs to be perfect as per the script but like this film it might just be
Speaker:Track 4: i got to look into like other coen brothers film but this one might just have
Speaker:Track 4: some like special uniqueness to it because like
Speaker:Track 4: they didn't follow choreography either in this movie like george clooney did
Speaker:Track 4: a lot of his own choreography john turturro they'd like made up a lot of their
Speaker:Track 4: own dancing and shit that they brought in choreographers for and they're like no no we got it
Speaker:Track 4: and then like just went and they're like fuck it we'll go with it this is good.
Speaker:Track 3: I mean that does.
Speaker:Track 4: Make cohen brothers allowed that so like the overacting like this might just
Speaker:Track 4: be special for cohen brothers.
Speaker:Track 3: Going off book for the dancing makes sense when like these guys weren't actually
Speaker:Track 3: musicians they like left their way into recording that album so i mean it it tracks yeah that.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah it almost makes more sense if any if that's being ad-libbed for them because
Speaker:Track 2: they're yeah like you said they're faking it anyway.
Speaker:Track 3: Hot damn it's the soggy bottom boys.
Speaker:Track 2: And for people who also don't know the films the the the out the uh the soundtrack
Speaker:Track 2: won the the uh what can i think of the word ramy,
Speaker:Track 2: the grammy for best album so i mean every.
Speaker:Track 4: Aspect of it was tim tim makes the most money because of because he actually
Speaker:Track 4: sang yeah so he gets royalties from the album he does like george.
Speaker:Track 3: Clooney trained for like four months and they're still like no.
Speaker:Track 1: Not good enough but tim blake nelson.
Speaker:Track 3: Is in is actually in multiple tracks talking about the soundtrack did you guys
Speaker:Track 3: know the opening song like that
Speaker:Track 3: chain gang was actually recorded in like 1929 and they tracked it down and they
Speaker:Track 3: went and found like the family of the last surviving guy on that chain gang
Speaker:Track 3: and got paid them like 25 grand worth of royalties for it.
Speaker:Track 1: I didn't know.
Speaker:Track 4: That that's where.
Speaker:Track 2: They where they easily could have just like.
Speaker:Track 1: Stolen like some.
Speaker:Track 2: Like lesser you know oh absolutely the gotta.
Speaker:Track 1: Respect them for that the the music in this like i really,
Speaker:Track 1: i really love i like folk music in general like i listen to folk music like
Speaker:Track 1: modern folk music but i also really love like class like old folk music and
Speaker:Track 1: big rock candy mountain is like a huge thing of like that is such,
Speaker:Track 1: that time period is so often ignored and not given the proper like accolades
Speaker:Track 1: or credit the people were just robbed blind,
Speaker:Track 1: every like the music and like the the way that we just get a glimpse it's funny
Speaker:Track 1: because we get a glimpse into how predatory the recording industry was at the
Speaker:Track 1: time just like a such a minor little glimpse of it,
Speaker:Track 1: and yet it really does tie in so relevantly to,
Speaker:Track 1: the reality of the situation at the time and the fact that the music in the
Speaker:Track 1: movie is so dominant and important.
Speaker:Track 1: And it is pulled from so many classic folk songs that were written by people
Speaker:Track 1: who were not at the time given their accolades, not at the time given credit
Speaker:Track 1: or monetary compensation for what they did.
Speaker:Track 1: And Big Rock Candy Mountain was known for many years and it took a long time
Speaker:Track 1: for people to figure out who it was that
Speaker:Track 1: deserve the credit for it.
Speaker:Track 3: It's it's so interesting because that's like how music worked is like you know
Speaker:Track 3: a song would blow up regionally and someone would be like oh that's playing
Speaker:Track 3: really well in tennessee i'm just going to re-record it in texas and then the
Speaker:Track 3: texas person gets famous for it
Speaker:Track 3: but i do appreciate because it is very very predatory but like you know obviously
Speaker:Track 3: all of these guys are conmen
Speaker:Track 3: and liars and are willing to like steal but they like the guy who's running
Speaker:Track 3: the studio is a blind man and so they lie about what both their race and then
Speaker:Track 3: the fact that there's another person's at the end they're like oh so and so
Speaker:Track 3: can't read so you can only find an act two more Oh.
Speaker:Track 4: Two more. Was it two more people?
Speaker:Track 1: He deserved it. He was also very racist. He deserved to be lied to and conned.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, for sure. Yeah. And so, yeah, they get the extra 100 bucks because it was
Speaker:Track 3: $10 each. So they got an extra 20 bucks, which back then is a lot of money.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah. I mean, you could tell that they probably were going to,
Speaker:Track 2: you know, they fight. You see, I think there's like a headline in the paper
Speaker:Track 2: at one point when it's like they throw the paper into the fire and you can see
Speaker:Track 2: the headline. One is about the dam and the other is about the soggy bottom boys.
Speaker:Track 2: They're easily going to be making people money.
Speaker:Track 2: like we don't know who they are so we're not going to try and figure out who
Speaker:Track 2: they are and we'll just make money off of their their name anyway right and they made a banger.
Speaker:Track 4: I mean they couldn't keep the records on the shelves no.
Speaker:Track 2: In the movie or real life i'm.
Speaker:Track 3: A dapper dan man at the end when they're in this little cabin and there was
Speaker:Track 3: like a hundred jars of dapper dan pomade into that little podunk cabin that
Speaker:Track 3: was modeled off of um the evil dead cabin.
Speaker:Track 2: It does look like the evil dead no it was.
Speaker:Track 3: Supposed to be because the cohen brothers were um editors on the evil dead movie
Speaker:Track 3: because they're like best friends with um sam ramey and bruce campbell so like
Speaker:Track 3: they actually made it to be identical to the cabin in that movie.
Speaker:Track 2: You didn't realize that okay that's amazing yeah i was telling i was like messaging
Speaker:Track 2: to them a little bit while i was re-watching it again i guess it was yesterday
Speaker:Track 2: and part of maybe the overacting and this is i guess more of like the script
Speaker:Track 2: the way that the coen brothers just write scripts is they'll have occasional times where just,
Speaker:Track 2: words or phrases are repeated and you like kind of find it annoying but then
Speaker:Track 2: it becomes funny and charming with like he must have says tight spot what at
Speaker:Track 2: least six times you know when the first time the,
Speaker:Track 2: the police are there the sheriff's there to get them i might just not.
Speaker:Track 3: Like george clooney it might just be that because like the same thing like i
Speaker:Track 3: love burn after reading it is great that's probably my favorite coen brothers
Speaker:Track 3: movie and i do not like him in that movie either Yeah.
Speaker:Track 4: I like him there, too.
Speaker:Track 1: I think you might be, yeah. Because...
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah. I love George Clooney.
Speaker:Track 4: That's fair. You're at least aware of it.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, I think the other issues, the difference, and now granted,
Speaker:Track 3: what I do, you know, so his name is Ulysses Everett, and he mainly goes by Everett,
Speaker:Track 3: and Ulysses is Odysseus in Romans, the Roman version. So that name plays into it.
Speaker:Track 3: You know, he is nowhere near as smart as Odysseus is. And now granted,
Speaker:Track 3: like the modern version with Matt Damon, you don't necessarily think he's the
Speaker:Track 3: smartest guy in the world.
Speaker:Track 3: like he is in the other versions but it may be that overacting comes into play
Speaker:Track 3: a little bit more when he's speaking you know with this fancy five dollar words
Speaker:Track 3: i don't know but it just came off as less so that was like he's the only one
Speaker:Track 3: who pulled the coen brother direction was that.
Speaker:Track 4: Like because he was trying to like act at first just be like oh i'll just regular
Speaker:Track 4: act and then they like pulled him aside and they're like you don't understand this character like,
Speaker:Track 4: he you're always the smartest guy in the room no matter what now act and he
Speaker:Track 4: was like oh i got it it's like even in the scene with john goodman he's like
Speaker:Track 4: i don't get it he's in there all like confident until he gets smashed in the.
Speaker:Track 3: Fucking face like see that's that's one thing i do like about this one he's the smartest
Speaker:Track 3: is that he he never is like you know at least in the odyssey whatever version
Speaker:Track 3: you're looking at the odysseus character you know obviously his pride and his
Speaker:Track 3: hubris is the downfall of everything and what causes all these issues in the
Speaker:Track 3: modern version it puts it all on the the men versus him,
Speaker:Track 3: which i don't agree with but in every other version it's both a combination
Speaker:Track 3: of his pride gets him into shit and then his brains gets him out of it like,
Speaker:Track 3: odysseus normally gets them out of the binds eventually none of they never get
Speaker:Track 3: out of any of the binds themselves like there's always some happy little accident
Speaker:Track 3: or just public opinion sways
Speaker:Track 3: them and gets them out of the bind so that's that's kind of another interesting
Speaker:Track 3: change to the odyssey see.
Speaker:Track 2: I'm.
Speaker:Track 1: Sorry evan you go.
Speaker:Track 2: I was just gonna only just say is that i like that in this it seems like he,
Speaker:Track 2: acts like the smartest person but isn't but for me it's the like mentioning
Speaker:Track 2: the dapper dan and his hair and everything like he always like you know has
Speaker:Track 2: to he's always combing his hair and has a hat then has a hairnet it's like,
Speaker:Track 2: his his his like his vanity of everything despite everything that's happening
Speaker:Track 2: to them like that's the thing he has to care about maybe it's cluny.
Speaker:Track 4: In every coen brothers but maybe that's just.
Speaker:Track 2: Something he.
Speaker:Track 3: Can control as a person who's literally out like he cannot control the outcome
Speaker:Track 3: and he's desperately trying if that's the one thing he can control.
Speaker:Track 2: That's true.
Speaker:Track 1: See i like i think you are you know correct in that way he is not he's not as
Speaker:Track 1: smart as he thinks he is he's a con man and,
Speaker:Track 1: to go back to like my whole like thesis on why this is a superior version of
Speaker:Track 1: western honesty interpretation is because,
Speaker:Track 1: that is the american way that is the American hero. It's the smooth talker.
Speaker:Track 1: It's the guy that can talk a big game.
Speaker:Track 1: It is literally how we ended up with fucking Donald Trump as president,
Speaker:Track 1: a culture that glorifies the smooth talker over actual substance.
Speaker:Track 1: Like I love, I love George Clooney's character. And personally, I love a good con man.
Speaker:Track 1: I love a good con man that like takes, that takes advantage of people who deserve it.
Speaker:Track 1: But that when people are unwitting and they are, you know, easily duped.
Speaker:Track 1: There's definitely black hat con people out there.
Speaker:Track 1: And the reality, you know, it's like this, the culture of the Grecian hero and
Speaker:Track 1: like being like, you know, that like, yeah, that was Odysseus.
Speaker:Track 1: But like, this is not, this is not the Greek Odyssey. This is the American Odyssey.
Speaker:Track 1: And what is the American hero? The American hero is, we have different archetypes.
Speaker:Track 1: So one of them, a major archetype is the fast talking con man.
Speaker:Track 1: How can you, and they, he, in the end, like, I disagree that it's like happy
Speaker:Track 1: accidents, get them out of things instead of like what he did,
Speaker:Track 1: because it's just that what he did,
Speaker:Track 1: it's never, his actions never get them out of the immediate situation.
Speaker:Track 1: His actions from a prior action, get them out of a subsequent situation.
Speaker:Track 1: he lays the path he lays the groundwork that subsequently manipulates in america,
Speaker:Track 1: a the american you know the american way of like you know mass communication
Speaker:Track 1: the growing mass communication that is how he lays the grid and that like it all rolls downhill.
Speaker:Track 3: See i just i disagree because there's two characters and we haven't even brought
Speaker:Track 3: up this character yet but tommy,
Speaker:Track 3: Everything happens realistically because Tommy convinces them to go to that
Speaker:Track 3: recording studio. That's where he's going.
Speaker:Track 3: And so if it wasn't for Tommy, they wouldn't have recorded that song.
Speaker:Track 3: If it wasn't for Tommy, they wouldn't have ended up at the Klan rally and figured
Speaker:Track 3: out who Homer was, who Homer truly was.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah, no, I'd absolutely agree, but I wouldn't say Tommy convinced him.
Speaker:Track 4: It was definitely Everett, Ulysses, Odysseus, who goes and is like,
Speaker:Track 4: oh, I can make some money on that.
Speaker:Track 4: he's paying people we're all gonna hop in we'll go with you bud we'll go all
Speaker:Track 4: the way because they had no plan at that point so it wasn't really much convincing
Speaker:Track 4: but now I absolutely agree.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah. And for people, just for like the side note, is that the Tommy,
Speaker:Track 2: who is a blues musician, who when they first introduced or introduced him as
Speaker:Track 2: he's hitchhiking, is he tells them he had sold his soul to the devil to become a guitar player.
Speaker:Track 2: I feel like he's supposed to be what did the is the music they play for him
Speaker:Track 2: and Robert Johnson? Or is that just supposed to be what they're he's supposed to be?
Speaker:Track 3: So tommy johnson was actually based off a real musician like there actually
Speaker:Track 3: was a musician from the south in that era and then um did you guys,
Speaker:Track 3: i never noticed it till this time but when he describes the the devil because
Speaker:Track 3: you have you know george colini's character it's like very condescending he's
Speaker:Track 3: like oh there's very you know several manners of imps and demons no he's just
Speaker:Track 3: acting in his character smartest guy in the room right what does he look.
Speaker:Track 4: Like oh i got the.
Speaker:Track 3: Answer but don't worry the guy it's like tom is like yeah yeah tommy's just
Speaker:Track 3: like oh he explains him he's like oh he's got these and the sunglasses and the
Speaker:Track 3: dog and like it's perfectly describing the sheriff that's chasing him around
Speaker:Track 3: who i didn't realize this time was also commandant spangler from malcolm the middle yes.
Speaker:Track 2: Well hey i think he also says he's like no he's a he says he's as white as you.
Speaker:Track 3: Folks yeah which i always love.
Speaker:Track 4: That yeah it wasn't until like a few years ago where i caught it where i was
Speaker:Track 4: like oh he's the fucking sheriff but like yeah no i always love this why is you folks.
Speaker:Track 3: The other thing.
Speaker:Track 2: I was thinking about you were talking about with the,
Speaker:Track 2: period of how they use this for the Odyssey is the thing that it also linked
Speaker:Track 2: really well is, which I think is,
Speaker:Track 2: I've paid more attention to it this time than I normally do,
Speaker:Track 2: is the governor's race where you have Homer, who's like the reform,
Speaker:Track 2: in quotes, candidate, who we find out later is Homer and he's the head of the Ku Klux Klan.
Speaker:Track 2: And then you have the existing Mississippi governor who is sort of like...
Speaker:Track 3: Papio Daniels.
Speaker:Track 2: Papio Daniels, who's sort of like the...
Speaker:Track 2: What do you call it? Like just the standard, like this is just the normal guy.
Speaker:Track 2: You're just going to get the same stuff that's destroyed the economy already.
Speaker:Track 2: You know, I mean, it is the Great Depression. It's not his fault per se.
Speaker:Track 3: One of the only things that I actually wrote down in terms of a quote was when
Speaker:Track 3: Pappy's son says something like, oh, why don't we like embrace some reforms?
Speaker:Track 3: And he's like, I can't reform. I'm the incumbent, which is so indicative of
Speaker:Track 3: like the establishment Democrats in modern society is just like,
Speaker:Track 3: well, we can't actually offer change because if we offer change,
Speaker:Track 3: that proves that we could have done these things.
Speaker:Track 3: So we have to fight progress for the sake of progress sake, which is funny because
Speaker:Track 3: like, ultimately the message of this movie is progress for progress sake actually
Speaker:Track 3: fucks over the little people.
Speaker:Track 3: Because even if that treasure was real, at the end of the day,
Speaker:Track 3: that river was going to get flooded by the TVA or that valley was going to get
Speaker:Track 3: flooded by the TVA. So it was like, and that was progress for progress sake.
Speaker:Track 3: So it's, it's just like, it's so relevant to today still. It's so wild.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, that entire governor's race was super interesting. And then the ironic
Speaker:Track 2: part is that he ends up taking basically the homers sort of constituency.
Speaker:Track 2: because he then sort of just like, oh yeah, I like this music.
Speaker:Track 2: I'm with it. I'm hip. I like his little dance.
Speaker:Track 2: Does his dance on stage.
Speaker:Track 3: But one of the things that's really interesting about that scene,
Speaker:Track 3: and I never really noticed it until this time around, was like,
Speaker:Track 3: so nobody has an issue with Homer.
Speaker:Track 3: He's legitimately looking like he's going to win the race.
Speaker:Track 3: And then everybody turns on him, not because it's revealed that he's the grandmaster
Speaker:Track 3: of that chapter of the Ku Klux clan
Speaker:Track 3: not because of his politics or anything but it's specifically because he ended
Speaker:Track 3: the party and being like these guys are not white and everything and everyone's like i just want to party
Speaker:Track 3: everything and like and it's it's very similar like with like donald trump right
Speaker:Track 3: now like nobody turned against trump because he's a racist or anything like that it's,
Speaker:Track 3: that's not the issue is people literally just want to be entertained and then
Speaker:Track 3: it kind of shows that like ultimately voting doesn't mean anything you're either
Speaker:Track 3: going to get this incumbent guy who will glob on to,
Speaker:Track 3: a meme essentially actually yeah you know pokemon go go go to the polls or whatever the hell it was or,
Speaker:Track 3: or you get the uh or you get the you know the grifter right-wing populist who's
Speaker:Track 3: ultimately he's going to run on populism but he's not actually going to do anything.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah it's that's true yeah they don't care that he's the grandmaster they just care he's uh.
Speaker:Track 3: A party ruined their party pooper.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah the more things don't change the more they stay the same.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah i think you could you could Probably, yeah, you say that a lot, Bill.
Speaker:Track 1: Because it's true. Because it's true.
Speaker:Track 2: I wasn't in the derogatory. Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: there's so many i was there's there's been articles that have been written and
Speaker:Track 2: you could go on youtube too and watch a bunch of videos about all the different characters from,
Speaker:Track 2: the odyssey and how they are matched to these but some of the some of them were
Speaker:Track 2: like very loosely added and like you said i think you said ward that some of
Speaker:Track 2: them they went back and changed some of it,
Speaker:Track 2: so i wonder if like did john goodman always have an eyepatch or they're like
Speaker:Track 2: we're just gonna throw an eyepatch on him so he's now the uh the um.
Speaker:Track 3: Well i mean now that you guys bring up the changes it does make a lot of sense
Speaker:Track 3: because there are you know i already mentioned tommy was based off a real musician
Speaker:Track 3: named tommy johnson but then the um babyface uh george or whatever his name
Speaker:Track 3: is that gangster was a real gangster yeah and then you had pappy,
Speaker:Track 3: uh papio daniels uh was also a real politician but he was based in arkansas
Speaker:Track 3: not mississippi so i'm curious yeah i mean it makes a ton of sense that they
Speaker:Track 3: were probably trying to make a more period piece and then leaned into the odyssey.
Speaker:Track 1: Again it's the notion that like in can you come up with a better 1920s depression
Speaker:Track 1: name than for a politician and papio.
Speaker:Track 3: Daniels right.
Speaker:Track 4: Like reality gave that to him.
Speaker:Track 3: Like homer you gotta use it but.
Speaker:Track 1: Again you know it returns to the fact that like these are these are aspects
Speaker:Track 1: of american mythology and if we are to you know we can there are definitely,
Speaker:Track 1: like periods of history that have influenced american culture and like that
Speaker:Track 1: are like touchstones of american mythology,
Speaker:Track 1: and the depression is definitely you know depression world like those are through
Speaker:Track 1: lines like those are major.
Speaker:Track 3: Cultural.
Speaker:Track 1: Like points that have established major you know movements and cultural like
Speaker:Track 1: moments that have carried through and like, you know,
Speaker:Track 1: this is, if you were going to base a movie, if you were going to create an interpretation
Speaker:Track 1: of the Odyssey based on American history, like this is a prime time to do it.
Speaker:Track 3: Right. Because you have the railroads, you have some modern conveniences to
Speaker:Track 3: explain how they're able to get around and everything where it's like there
Speaker:Track 3: isn't like nowadays like, oh, you can just hop on a plane and get from where
Speaker:Track 3: you're going to Mississippi.
Speaker:Track 3: Like this is probably like the most recent era in history that you could actually tell this tale.
Speaker:Track 1: Would have to to tell that tale today you would have to,
Speaker:Track 1: either go real metaphorical or you'd have to really just start like
Speaker:Track 1: manufacturing means of uh restricting you know planes trains and automobiles
Speaker:Track 1: kind of yeah you have to really you know i mean cell phones that in itself just.
Speaker:Track 4: Even the use of the in music in the film is like mirrors how like music is treated
Speaker:Track 4: in america where you have like the chain gang singing a what is a protest song
Speaker:Track 4: which is transformed into,
Speaker:Track 4: and commodified into entertainment for the the prison overseers and us as the
Speaker:Track 4: audience watching at home and
Speaker:Track 4: the transition of the music you have them recording the first album the
Speaker:Track 4: the money to getting taken from records getting sold they don't even know that
Speaker:Track 4: they're famous yet right until they show up at that fundraiser yeah
Speaker:Track 4: But even then, like the chain gang, it's, it's all, it's all black prisoners,
Speaker:Track 4: except for our three main characters. And then the next music scene is a baptismal
Speaker:Track 4: with all white people, just joyous, enjoying themselves. It's entertainment for them.
Speaker:Track 3: Right.
Speaker:Track 4: When it was protests for the, uh, the prisoners and the black people,
Speaker:Track 4: just like folk music was like a meant, like originated as like a workers movement
Speaker:Track 4: and got commodified and stripped away from that just for the entertainment of the masses.
Speaker:Track 3: Totally and like if you if you look at like a bird's eye view of this movie
Speaker:Track 3: you could actually almost look at the movie in that same thought because the
Speaker:Track 3: whole movie is about these three.
Speaker:Track 3: You know for better i mean yes they are technically criminals but they don't
Speaker:Track 3: have any means of improving their station in life and the whole
Speaker:Track 3: like this movie is like kind of that fake mythology of the american dream of
Speaker:Track 3: like if you just work hard enough or if you have enough money like even if that
Speaker:Track 3: treasure was real and they were able to get that one million dollars worth of
Speaker:Track 3: payroll you know whole thing is, well, if we just had enough money,
Speaker:Track 3: we could power through and be successful.
Speaker:Track 3: And at the end of the movie, ultimately, like they get a pardon that's not worth
Speaker:Track 3: the paper that it's printed on because they don't have jobs.
Speaker:Track 3: They don't have means of money.
Speaker:Track 3: they realistically they're still criminals and they're going to go back to it
Speaker:Track 3: and so you can pull it back and they're like even for us like all of us like
Speaker:Track 3: i've paid for this movie multiple times and ultimately it's a movie about like
Speaker:Track 3: how pointless capitalism is and at the end of the day like these
Speaker:Track 3: heroes whether you know there are the heroes of the story they're no better
Speaker:Track 3: off than they were at the beginning of the movie other than they're just not
Speaker:Track 3: technically in prison anymore but they're still in prison of the system.
Speaker:Track 3: And there's no resolution. There's no happy ending.
Speaker:Track 3: In fact, like Everett is like getting nagged at from Penny because he got the
Speaker:Track 3: wrong ring. So like he's still not even sure he's going to get his wife back.
Speaker:Track 3: And it's being sold as entertainment to us. So it's the same thing as like the
Speaker:Track 3: chain gang's music is sold for entertainment to people who are trapped in capitalism,
Speaker:Track 3: who are still no better off realistically than these chain gang people are metaphorically.
Speaker:Track 3: They're still chained to a system.
Speaker:Track 2: One of my favorite scenes that's kind of related to this is when they're all
Speaker:Track 2: sitting around saying what they'll do with their portion of the treasure.
Speaker:Track 2: Pete says his dream is to become a maitre d', where he would get free meals
Speaker:Track 2: and would still serve people.
Speaker:Track 1: He's going to own the restaurant and be the maitre d'.
Speaker:Track 2: Yes. And Del Mar basically says he wants to buy back his family farm.
Speaker:Track 2: And he says, quote, ain't, uh, ain't no man if you don't got land.
Speaker:Track 2: Like these are people who have nothing. They have no way to improve anything.
Speaker:Track 2: And then what does George Clooney say what he would do?
Speaker:Track 1: I don't think so. I don't remember. I think they got cut off before what he says.
Speaker:Track 2: I thought so too.
Speaker:Track 1: Pete's to me is like, like Pete is the most like pointed, like just like the
Speaker:Track 1: most like straightforward, but Delmar's really speaks to like the nature.
Speaker:Track 1: It's like, this isn't even like this guy isn't like, you know,
Speaker:Track 1: you know, there's always the notion.
Speaker:Track 1: It's like, Oh, you know, Americans people, you know, like if they're given things, they'll just be lazy.
Speaker:Track 1: And it's like this man, has not lived an easy life clear like nobody nobody
Speaker:Track 1: this time you know none of these people you know they've not lived an easy life
Speaker:Track 1: and this man's like i want to own a restaurant,
Speaker:Track 1: and then work there like people don't want to be lazy people don't want to do
Speaker:Track 1: nothing and like that really i think it says a lot this guy's like
Speaker:Track 1: it's like yeah like the fanciest thing he could think The most impressive thing he could think of is,
Speaker:Track 1: owning a restaurant to provide and serve people food.
Speaker:Track 1: Like that is such a touching sentiment when you really think about it.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, that's awesome. I never even realized I didn't pick up on that at all,
Speaker:Track 3: but that's actually pretty deep.
Speaker:Track 2: I also like in the script, it specifically spells the word Mater D in a funny
Speaker:Track 2: way. It says M-A-I-D-E-R-D-E-E, Mater D.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, he says it very, he says that D real hard.
Speaker:Track 2: And then he also says that he wants them to call him, they want him to say,
Speaker:Track 2: yes sir, no sir, Jiffy Pete. In a Jiffy Pete.
Speaker:Track 3: That's so funny.
Speaker:Track 2: You're right, though, when the police arrive and they're not able,
Speaker:Track 2: and Everett's not able to give his thing. But he's like combing his hair,
Speaker:Track 2: obviously, at the exact same time.
Speaker:Track 3: Top you kind of mentioned like nobody's living a good life in this era but realistically
Speaker:Track 3: the politicians are so like pappy
Speaker:Track 3: o daniel's like interesting so they kind of like lumped him in with like an
Speaker:Track 3: fdr type obviously he's like nowhere near what fdr was doing in terms of politics
Speaker:Track 3: but he had his little like fireside radio chats,
Speaker:Track 3: but one of the things i didn't notice until this time was like he the advertisements
Speaker:Track 3: were companies he owned it's like the flour mill that he owned was the advertisement
Speaker:Track 3: they bring it up so it's like you know every step of the way this politician,
Speaker:Track 3: is using like his station in life his his platform to enrich himself with like
Speaker:Track 3: you know he's he's pretending he's communicating with the people and being a
Speaker:Track 3: man of the people but the reality is it's the only way for the people to hear him,
Speaker:Track 3: is by this radio and it's a fact that like they have to buy his flower and they
Speaker:Track 3: get the advertisements for it so it's just like this man is enriching himself off his uh constituents.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah i love the performative politics especially like you got Stoker who's like got a little person.
Speaker:Track 3: Saying I'm.
Speaker:Track 4: Fighting for the little man like come on.
Speaker:Track 3: What if we got an even smaller guy with a smaller bro do you mean the film's.
Speaker:Track 1: Not quiet so what you're.
Speaker:Track 3: Saying is that.
Speaker:Track 1: Pat he has his own version of truth social,
Speaker:Track 1: Thank you for your attention to this matter. Buy Pappy's flower.
Speaker:Track 1: Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Speaker:Track 3: That's Trump coin.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah. Literally, they made this movie 26 years ago. 26 years ago.
Speaker:Track 1: For those of you who are young, when we were young, but not old enough to know
Speaker:Track 1: shit about the world, in 2000, nobody thought Trump was going to be president.
Speaker:Track 1: And this movie could not have more on-the-nose depicted a man that has used
Speaker:Track 1: the political – like, so – like, yes, graft-to-corruption is – like,
Speaker:Track 1: I'm not denying that by any stretch of the imagination.
Speaker:Track 1: But the blatant product placement in the way – and, like, control over it has
Speaker:Track 1: gotten to a point that nobody imagined in 2000.
Speaker:Track 1: We did not imagine it would be this accelerated in 2000. Right.
Speaker:Track 1: The internet has done terrible things.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: I like to say this sometimes too. I don't know. Maybe we had this discussion is,
Speaker:Track 2: when 20 years ago, people, this is like a way off kind of a tangent,
Speaker:Track 2: but people would often like give any celebrity or actor, like you would be shamed
Speaker:Track 2: if you did cheesy advertising on, on TV.
Speaker:Track 2: Now, every single celebrity you can think of will, will hawk anything.
Speaker:Track 2: They will let them hawk on TV.
Speaker:Track 3: It's the easiest way to make money. like it's because when you do a commercial
Speaker:Track 3: you get a lot of these actors will get like a million dollars for a commercial
Speaker:Track 3: and they're working one day and then they get paid in perpetuity like i have you know i'm obviously
Speaker:Track 3: based in los angeles and around a lot of actors but it's like most actors like
Speaker:Track 3: i have a friend or it's more of my wife's friend who used to book commercials
Speaker:Track 3: and like his agents like you shouldn't be doing commercials anymore because
Speaker:Track 3: you're getting a lot of guest spots but the guest spots pay way less but the
Speaker:Track 3: prestige is being on television and now Now you've got it, like you said,
Speaker:Track 3: like now the celebrities are taking
Speaker:Track 3: all of those roles that used to be able to go to character actors or whatever.
Speaker:Track 3: Like Keanu Reeves started doing like a Kellogg's commercial kind of thing.
Speaker:Track 3: Like it used to be the way to break into stuff. And now it's all those jobs are taken.
Speaker:Track 1: Now who's the friend?
Speaker:Track 2: It's completely unrelated to this film.
Speaker:Track 1: I want to know who the friend is.
Speaker:Track 2: Oh.
Speaker:Track 3: He's not, he's not, you know, he's a, he's very, he's successful.
Speaker:Track 3: Like he's, he's doing well enough as an actor. He can afford a home. Yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: I want to know if I like his work.
Speaker:Track 3: Like he's very comfortable I want to know.
Speaker:Track 1: If I like his.
Speaker:Track 3: Work I mean you want to know yeah I mean I'll send you his who he is he's one
Speaker:Track 3: of those people he just let us know after yeah I'll tell you who he is you won't
Speaker:Track 3: know who he is like he's just a friend of my wife.
Speaker:Track 1: I watch a lot of.
Speaker:Track 3: Stuff yeah between.
Speaker:Track 4: The three of us we watch a lot of stuff okay there's a.
Speaker:Track 3: Chance that isn't good.
Speaker:Track 4: Chance stop being such horny yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: If there's ever a chance it's this group I'm just not trying to put somebody's
Speaker:Track 3: business out there oh yeah no no no for sure tell us after them I don't know.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, stop being such horny toads about this.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah. I thought you was a horny toad.
Speaker:Track 1: His delivery is amazing. I love him.
Speaker:Track 3: That's my favorite line in this movie, though.
Speaker:Track 4: Dude, his gasp when the frog gets squished by John Goodman.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, so good.
Speaker:Track 1: Heartbreaking.
Speaker:Track 3: Heartbreaking. Totally.
Speaker:Track 4: It's perfect. It's incredible.
Speaker:Track 3: Don't you know these give you warts? Oh.
Speaker:Track 1: So.
Speaker:Track 2: I also like that they get, oh, they get baptized, and then right after they're
Speaker:Track 2: in the car with baby face and they're like oh like you know what does the guy
Speaker:Track 2: was a line he said yeah he asked.
Speaker:Track 4: Him he's like uh i don't suppose you're bad men and it's like well we were up until.
Speaker:Track 2: Yesterday.
Speaker:Track 3: Now we're saved well i like when um similar things so it's like they get baptized
Speaker:Track 3: and then immediately they meet tommy and tommy was like i just sold my soul
Speaker:Track 3: to the devil and like um ever it says something along the lines of like oh these
Speaker:Track 3: two just got baptized i'm the only one who's unaffiliated Yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: I love unopening.
Speaker:Track 2: I just like the idea that they're trying to be saved, like, you know,
Speaker:Track 2: that they've now been baptized and saved. And the funniest part is that we didn't
Speaker:Track 2: even mention that Everett's in prison, which we find out later,
Speaker:Track 2: is because he was impersonating a lawyer, right?
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah. I just want to, okay, to go back to them being convicts,
Speaker:Track 1: okay? We know what he went to prison for. Are we, do we?
Speaker:Track 2: We never find out the others.
Speaker:Track 3: One of the guys was, yeah, one of them was going to be out in two weeks.
Speaker:Track 1: I think it might have been two days.
Speaker:Track 1: It's very short. But to go back to the, oh, they're convicts.
Speaker:Track 1: It's like, yeah, they were convicts in American Depression prison.
Speaker:Track 1: They put people in prison for fucking everything.
Speaker:Track 4: One of them held over a Piggly Wiggly and lied about it. But don't worry.
Speaker:Track 4: Pastor said those are both forgiven.
Speaker:Track 3: They.
Speaker:Track 1: Put people in prison for fucking everything like i'm not gonna judge these men
Speaker:Track 1: for being in prison i wouldn't judge me i don't judge people for being in prison
Speaker:Track 1: now you think i was gonna i'm not gonna judge right fucking depression well.
Speaker:Track 3: Another interesting thing about his prison time so like those kids um with that
Speaker:Track 3: he has with penny are so young there's one that's like a baby like maybe a year
Speaker:Track 3: year and a half baby in arms and right like,
Speaker:Track 3: maybe even younger than that and so it's like you know if you're comparing this
Speaker:Track 3: to the odyssey where you know penelope waited 20 years before finally realized
Speaker:Track 3: okay i gotta get a suitor but it doesn't matter what version it's roughly 20 years,
Speaker:Track 3: she waited like a year for this guy to get out of prison before getting married endure.
Speaker:Track 4: A great depression yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: That's true that's it's interesting i'm not
Speaker:Track 3: i'm not saying she's not doing the right thing like he's not what were her material
Speaker:Track 3: conditions back then compared to the great depression of the american south
Speaker:Track 3: so it's like you understand it i'm not knocking her for making that decision he's.
Speaker:Track 4: Bonafide right he's a suitor.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah when he comes back and then he's like whenever it's like she's like well
Speaker:Track 3: what are you gonna do to like help these kids he's like oh i'm i know a guy
Speaker:Track 3: who will forge a dentist license kind of thing so so funny in that moment she still like
Speaker:Track 3: has every right to be like no i'm gonna go marry this guy who's like can provide
Speaker:Track 3: i'm not knocking her for making that choice i just turn around.
Speaker:Track 4: Like oh yeah you're gonna another doctor thing you're gonna impersonate another
Speaker:Track 4: person oh yeah let me turn back he does lose his job.
Speaker:Track 1: Basically immediately after he shows up,
Speaker:Track 1: Right. So, you know, yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: That's true. Ugh.
Speaker:Track 3: So the, the finale though, like, you know, ultimately the river gets flooded.
Speaker:Track 3: I didn't realize that was like a real thing. Like I knew that was a real thing.
Speaker:Track 3: Like we built reservoirs and stuff during that time, but like the TVA in this
Speaker:Track 3: era in Mississippi, like displaced like 14,000 people for these projects.
Speaker:Track 4: Which is crazy all over the country.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: This wasn't quite at this moment because they hadn't started doing the part
Speaker:Track 2: of the New Deal, which is all the construction of highways later on.
Speaker:Track 2: But they'd end up doing the same thing with just destroying black neighborhoods
Speaker:Track 2: in major cities to build highways too. This didn't matter. Commerce had to continue.
Speaker:Track 3: Dodger Stadium. That with the Hispanic community here, it's awful.
Speaker:Track 2: Dodger Stadium, yeah. I mean, Chavez Ravine.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: I guess I can also mention, I just like the, what's the other fucking thing?
Speaker:Track 2: I had another note that I was going to bring up.
Speaker:Track 4: While you're looking for that, I had a real quick one. I liked when they went
Speaker:Track 4: in to the radio station to first record.
Speaker:Track 4: And it's like, oh no, they're all looking for old timey music.
Speaker:Track 4: And it was like, just the desire for nostalgia when economic times are hard.
Speaker:Track 4: And you see that now. And we've been seeing it for a while.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah something.
Speaker:Track 4: I picked up on i never really that never stood out to me before when watching this.
Speaker:Track 3: And they weaponize it nowadays like you know us you know i think most of us
Speaker:Track 3: are millennials uh you know like they've really weaponized,
Speaker:Track 3: nostalgia and capitalism with us and it's not it's no different like them weaponizing
Speaker:Track 3: nostalgia to like okay we're gonna have these old-time music because we know
Speaker:Track 3: it's gonna sell versus like doing something new but like us millennials got
Speaker:Track 3: in that trap of like the Funko Pops and,
Speaker:Track 3: you know all the different t-shirts and owning five versions of a record and
Speaker:Track 3: you know doing midnight shows and seeing the same thing over and over and over
Speaker:Track 3: again that's it's just our coping skills we want to go back to a world that
Speaker:Track 3: really didn't exist like we idealized the 90s and early 2000s I mean it's all
Speaker:Track 3: a joke like it wasn't what we really thought it was but,
Speaker:Track 3: it's interesting because yeah it's still prevalent today.
Speaker:Track 1: I don't I don't I've never thought about it is like, in general,
Speaker:Track 1: like, I don't think I never think about like nostalgia as like idealizing a
Speaker:Track 1: time period so much as just, it's like age regression.
Speaker:Track 1: It's like when you were just, it's not even like idealizing the time period
Speaker:Track 1: so much as how you felt, how you felt and bringing back and like,
Speaker:Track 1: but more to the, like it is looking to re,
Speaker:Track 1: to feel the innocence and the hope that you had.
Speaker:Track 4: Right and i think that's how i feel about it is it's the nostalgia of being
Speaker:Track 4: weaponized it's not so much,
Speaker:Track 4: aiming at somebody thinking oh i wish it was the 80s again it's it's aimed at
Speaker:Track 4: that part of you that exists under capitalism,
Speaker:Track 4: that yearns for relaxation and reprieve from oppressive systems.
Speaker:Track 3: And that's why that MAGA makes sense, like make America great again.
Speaker:Track 3: It taps into that. And I'm not saying I want, you know, go back to politics
Speaker:Track 3: of like catchy little phrases, but like that's something the Democratic Party
Speaker:Track 3: has absolutely not had for 20 years.
Speaker:Track 3: Like the only person who kind of did it was Obama. And it was a single word,
Speaker:Track 3: hope, which is so empty. Like, what does that even mean? Like hope means something
Speaker:Track 3: different for everyone. We all hope for a different thing.
Speaker:Track 3: but it's just interesting because it's like yeah i mean it really is make america
Speaker:Track 3: great again is like go back to that whatever period and it's so vague like when
Speaker:Track 3: you ask people like what does that mean to you
Speaker:Track 3: we all know the white racist guys are thinking the 50s 60s era which they don't
Speaker:Track 3: even understand had super progressive tax schemes in that area like they just don't fucking know,
Speaker:Track 3: but it's it's it taps into that emotional core and like honestly like,
Speaker:Track 3: trump's marketing was brilliant and it makes sense why he caught on in 2015
Speaker:Track 3: and not why you know people like us on the left were like begging the Democrats
Speaker:Track 3: to embrace some sort of leftist pop, any left leaning populism to combat that
Speaker:Track 3: during the Tea Party movement with,
Speaker:Track 3: I can't even think of her name. I could see Alaska from my house.
Speaker:Track 1: Palin.
Speaker:Track 3: Thank you.
Speaker:Track 1: What a time oh god.
Speaker:Track 3: And to think it.
Speaker:Track 4: Got it feels so much better i never remember her name is.
Speaker:Track 3: Worse to think it got worse from that.
Speaker:Track 1: Holy shit the acceleration it truly is like as like marxists and like you know
Speaker:Track 1: like long time like marxists who like we've like studied shit and we've like
Speaker:Track 1: looked back at things and it's like,
Speaker:Track 1: it is amazing to to be now in like 2026 and be like shit it is even worse than i thought like even.
Speaker:Track 3: Knowing things.
Speaker:Track 1: Worse than i thought like even like knowing things i'm like fuck it got worse
Speaker:Track 1: faster than i thought holy fuck.
Speaker:Track 3: Like i thought.
Speaker:Track 4: I knew shit no.
Speaker:Track 3: No it's so weird because like you brought up marks you know i like so when the
Speaker:Track 3: when i was first on your guys's show a couple months ago it was like,
Speaker:Track 3: the day after i got laid off from my job and now i'm on the show two days after
Speaker:Track 3: i got my first paycheck of getting a job again which is great you know i was
Speaker:Track 3: a little scared but it's so funny um,
Speaker:Track 3: but thank you um while i've been driving like i've you know been catching up
Speaker:Track 3: on podcasts and stuff because i wasn't commuting so i wasn't listening to stuff
Speaker:Track 3: but i also was like you know it's been a long time since i've read mark so i
Speaker:Track 3: got an audiobook version of it and i was like i'm gonna go through it and i'm
Speaker:Track 3: like i've been listening to,
Speaker:Track 3: um both the um communist manifesto and now i'm into um capital and i'm just
Speaker:Track 3: like listening to like chapter one,
Speaker:Track 3: of the communist manifesto and it was just like talking about like all the things
Speaker:Track 3: going on like jesus christ like chapter one is everything happening today like
Speaker:Track 3: oh my god it was so and i like i've read
Speaker:Track 3: the manifesto before and it was just like god this is so scary how accurate
Speaker:Track 3: this is like it's it's nostradamus level prophecy it's scary i mean.
Speaker:Track 1: In a similar vein this is why like you know people talk about like oh you know you should,
Speaker:Track 1: to read imperialism. That's the book you need to read because that outlines
Speaker:Track 1: exactly what is happening.
Speaker:Track 2: Was that in?
Speaker:Track 1: Yes. You need to read imperialism. You should read State and Rev.
Speaker:Track 1: I'm like, but you need to read imperialism. If you really want to know what
Speaker:Track 1: the fuck's going on, how this shit works, that's the one you got to read.
Speaker:Track 3: On the list.
Speaker:Track 2: I think we brought that one up here before. At least as, I don't remember what
Speaker:Track 2: episode it was, but we were talking about it at some point.
Speaker:Track 2: There was another part of the movie that I was going to mention that's funny.
Speaker:Track 2: I wish that more people, they had shown more people die at the KKK rally.
Speaker:Track 2: Like, they don't really, unfortunately, don't give us much there.
Speaker:Track 2: We just know that John Goodman's character likely dies because the cross falls on him.
Speaker:Track 3: I love how he caught the flag and it's all pointing and it looks like it's going
Speaker:Track 3: to get his other eye out because, you know, super intense.
Speaker:Track 3: So great. Are you going to get it in the cuts? You don't get it.
Speaker:Track 3: Like that moment, that anticipation, like the there's really only two real stories
Speaker:Track 3: from the Odyssey that really are prominently featured in here.
Speaker:Track 3: The Cyclops and the Sirens are the two biggest.
Speaker:Track 3: And you're just like waiting for that eye to go. And then it's taken away,
Speaker:Track 3: but then he gets killed anyway. So it's like, it subverts your expectations in like the best way.
Speaker:Track 4: It's such a good bait and switch in multiple ways.
Speaker:Track 2: Don't they, doesn't when Homer show up at the party, they're the,
Speaker:Track 2: like the fundraiser, doesn't he say something to the effect of,
Speaker:Track 2: doesn't he get like, those are the guys who...
Speaker:Track 1: Did something to the.
Speaker:Track 3: Confederate i've got that written down so it says um though these boys are not
Speaker:Track 3: white they interfered with the lynch mob and then he goes on to say he's like
Speaker:Track 3: i happen to be a member of a secret.
Speaker:Track 1: Society that does not need to be named all right so i want to.
Speaker:Track 4: And then they ran him out on a rail so good.
Speaker:Track 1: I want to i want to go over the like basically like the parallels else um so yes the uh,
Speaker:Track 1: the sirens the sirens and um uh the cyclops are the two but also the lotus eaters
Speaker:Track 1: uh the baptism is a direct reference to the lotus eaters from the odyssey um,
Speaker:Track 1: and the them calling under their spell prophecy.
Speaker:Track 3: At the beginning.
Speaker:Track 1: Too yeah the black man yeah i jumped ahead but i'm good yeah so starting right
Speaker:Track 1: off the bat the blind the blind prophet the guy you know the black man on the
Speaker:Track 1: rail car is blind and he lays out a prophecy which is fulfilled later on like.
Speaker:Track 4: Which leads into a super sick fade as they walk up.
Speaker:Track 1: To wash his.
Speaker:Track 4: Play cousin's place oh such a.
Speaker:Track 1: Sick so um we literally start out well first of all it starts out with invocation
Speaker:Track 1: to the muses but that's just like a um and obviously you know odysseus ulysses and his crew whatever uh,
Speaker:Track 1: hobo predicts ulysses won't get the treasure he seeks uh in the in the odyssey
Speaker:Track 1: um says you know he'll get many he'll take many years it takes place during
Speaker:Track 1: 12 the 12th century 1200 bc is right after the late bronze age collapse which is basically,
Speaker:Track 1: a fucking region-wide like depression like that there there was a yeah there was.
Speaker:Track 4: But so okay so kudos to well i didn't.
Speaker:Track 1: Fucking read the odyssey.
Speaker:Track 3: Was odysseus i read an abridged version yeah odysseus's wife.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah who waited 20 years she was still her she was fine she she wasn't working
Speaker:Track 1: economically she was fine oh oh never mind then um.
Speaker:Track 4: Not so much credit she was a.
Speaker:Track 1: Queen like odysseus was literally the king oh oh see i don't read that shit.
Speaker:Track 4: Just like i didn't watch nolan's movie yeah no he's.
Speaker:Track 3: He's the king of Ithaca. That's the whole thing is like they can host all these
Speaker:Track 3: suitors but there's like over 20 years of hosting the suitors has depleted a
Speaker:Track 3: lot of their wealth but they still own it.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, she's fine. We don't need to give her any credit.
Speaker:Track 3: They're just, they're just, they're now into their, like, not so good wine is
Speaker:Track 3: where they're at in that story.
Speaker:Track 4: Well, I'm just helping catch up the people at home that also didn't read the Odyssey, all right?
Speaker:Track 1: In general, the Odyssey does take place during a time of regional economic,
Speaker:Track 1: maybe not depression, but, you know, decay.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, I mean, it is after a major, you know, a major civilization has collapsed.
Speaker:Track 1: um uh there is a there's repeated reference to individuals being uh pigs and
Speaker:Track 1: being sold out uh the witch cersei,
Speaker:Track 1: turns uh odysseus crew into pigs uh we've already mentioned like the blind the
Speaker:Track 1: the blind uh record video man is he's a reference to homer,
Speaker:Track 1: uh george babyfist nelson is a direct reference to hermes the god of thieves
Speaker:Track 1: he later then kills the cows,
Speaker:Track 1: and is strung up for that and his crime but like it is primarily the fact that
Speaker:Track 1: he killed their cows uh because,
Speaker:Track 1: odysseus's crew killed cows and um were smoked by he they killed helios's cows
Speaker:Track 1: and they were smoked by helios baby.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah baby face died in a.
Speaker:Track 1: Shootout with the cops and well in but in the movie he is marched off by a um,
Speaker:Track 1: yeah a lynch mob of the people who in that lynch mob say he's a cow killer like
Speaker:Track 1: they're like he's a cow killer and they march him off um.
Speaker:Track 3: I missed that.
Speaker:Track 4: One who gives a fuck if.
Speaker:Track 1: You robin banks.
Speaker:Track 4: Fuck them banks.
Speaker:Track 1: Uh, but yes.
Speaker:Track 2: FDIC.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, I think this was a little before that.
Speaker:Track 4: When banks took my neighbor's farm. That's, that's the more.
Speaker:Track 1: You know, the sirens, the sirens are, I think the sirens are actually like one
Speaker:Track 1: of the most like explicit other than the slacklops.
Speaker:Track 1: Um, and I do think that, you know, they did more than just gave him a,
Speaker:Track 1: a, because they referenced specifically throughout like his, their interactions.
Speaker:Track 1: Um, He makes references to mannerisms of the Cyclops being like,
Speaker:Track 1: he's like, I'm large, I'm, you know, when he says like, I'm a Mike Peckish even
Speaker:Track 1: after that meal, because the Cyclops in the Odyssey, he's always hungry.
Speaker:Track 1: And like, you know, they always, he does reference that multiple times.
Speaker:Track 1: So it's not just the eyepatch. He, and also the fact that the Cyclops does want
Speaker:Track 1: to, you know, basically steal from, you know, or well, he wants to eat Odysseus or whatever. um.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah and he ends up having them pay for.
Speaker:Track 1: His lunch yeah and and then he wants to so funny
Speaker:Track 1: you know he's not gonna you know in this he's not gonna eat you know odysseus
Speaker:Track 1: he's not gonna eat you know ulysses but like he's going to do the next best
Speaker:Track 1: thing which is take all of his money so you know like that is as good you know.
Speaker:Track 3: Which babyface george.
Speaker:Track 1: Gave them they robbed.
Speaker:Track 3: That bank with him and he gave.
Speaker:Track 1: Them the money.
Speaker:Track 3: So like the little come up they had is.
Speaker:Track 1: Gone um and yes and And then, you know, the whole, you know,
Speaker:Track 1: that is the big aspect, you know, like the Cyclops and all that stuff.
Speaker:Track 1: There are, like, you know, a lot of, like, little name references.
Speaker:Track 1: I personally really, I love the Sirens aspect of it and how they think,
Speaker:Track 1: you know, that's my favorite reference in all of it, despite how much I love John Codeman.
Speaker:Track 1: But that is my favorite reference in all of it to the original.
Speaker:Track 3: And you saw Penelope, Penny.
Speaker:Track 1: Oh, yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, and also Penelope and Penny. Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: And there's technically a challenge,
Speaker:Track 3: even if the challenge is only to Everett and not all the suitors.
Speaker:Track 1: Well, there's only, you know, the Shun has one suitor.
Speaker:Track 3: One other suitor.
Speaker:Track 1: The Shun has one suitor.
Speaker:Track 3: Right. That we know of.
Speaker:Track 1: That's true.
Speaker:Track 3: No, it's probably just there.
Speaker:Track 1: And you know what? That is one thing I, you know, and again,
Speaker:Track 1: to go back to like, you know, how like this is an American interpretation,
Speaker:Track 1: you know, there has been criticism,
Speaker:Track 1: brought against Christopher Nolan that his interpretation basically just did not have enough sex.
Speaker:Track 1: And I think that that is a valid criticism for his version because it's trying to be Greek.
Speaker:Track 1: but this is trying to be this is an american odyssey and america.
Speaker:Track 3: Is tied.
Speaker:Track 1: Up in puritanism and sexual repression so i wouldn't expect.
Speaker:Track 3: A bunch of sex i do have a hot take for the nolan version at if you guys want to hear it absolutely so,
Speaker:Track 3: so nolan rightfully has been criticized for a lot of things of being conservative
Speaker:Track 3: coded not writing strong female characters not really making any statements,
Speaker:Track 3: um when making movies and i feel like this movie i don't think he was successful
Speaker:Track 3: but i actually took he think that was weird i think he took swings to try and combat some of that like,
Speaker:Track 3: you know the you know i know you guys all haven't seen the movie but like cersei
Speaker:Track 3: in the new version is very well written and very dominating and strong is probably
Speaker:Track 3: the most powerful moment in the movie at least when i watched it,
Speaker:Track 3: And then Penelope is a little bit different and stronger. And she actually calls
Speaker:Track 3: out like, why do I need Odysseus? Why do I need you, Tom Holland,
Speaker:Track 3: to be king? Like, I've been queen and running this shit for 20 years.
Speaker:Track 3: And so I think he took a swing at writing for women. I don't think he landed
Speaker:Track 3: because the whole Odyssey is strictly about a man coming home.
Speaker:Track 3: Like, there's no agency with these women.
Speaker:Track 3: And then I think even like with trans issues, like the character of Sinan played
Speaker:Track 3: by Elliot Page was original. like that actually is the only part that Achilles is in the Odyssey.
Speaker:Track 3: Elliot does take the Achilles role. And Sinon is always like a liar,
Speaker:Track 3: like throughout literary history, you know, in Dante's Inferno, Sinon is a liar.
Speaker:Track 3: There's a word synonymous or Sinon. I can't remember the word.
Speaker:Track 3: That means like a lying person. Cause Sinon was the character that lied to the
Speaker:Track 3: Greeks to got them to take the Trojan horse.
Speaker:Track 3: And in this version, Sinon is always telling the truth and Sinon,
Speaker:Track 3: it kind of takes that place. So it's like, it's almost like a pro-trans,
Speaker:Track 3: like I saw a trans woman write an op-ed being like, actually,
Speaker:Track 3: this movie is kind of pro-trans.
Speaker:Track 3: And so I actually think, and then he makes this big statement about capitalism,
Speaker:Track 3: like the whole Trojan War was actually about taking over the trade routes.
Speaker:Track 3: And then it ultimately, the big crux of the message is all the women are telling
Speaker:Track 3: Odysseus throughout and the people who give them the message of like,
Speaker:Track 3: dude, all your guys are going to die.
Speaker:Track 3: They're saying like, your men are rapists. Your men are pillagers.
Speaker:Track 3: They're not good people.
Speaker:Track 3: they tried to hand wash like you're a good person odysseus but your people aren't
Speaker:Track 3: like he actually does try to make a statement about how cruel men are it just
Speaker:Track 3: doesn't land like i think,
Speaker:Track 3: um christopher nolan really was trying to be like i listened to you guys and
Speaker:Track 3: i want to make a make a statement and it just was very flat and i that's just
Speaker:Track 3: my hot take on it i think he failed but i think he really i think that was his version of trying yeah.
Speaker:Track 4: I think that's Nolan's limit is like he can make stuff through his like his
Speaker:Track 4: like creative flow or like how he makes big spectacles and stuff like that.
Speaker:Track 4: But like, dude, he's not a message guy.
Speaker:Track 4: What has he been through? What is the experience to have like an actual fucking
Speaker:Track 4: message? He just breaks IMAX cameras and fucking calls it good.
Speaker:Track 2: Like, well, he wasn't one who broke the camera. I thought wasn't it.
Speaker:Track 4: He's broken several.
Speaker:Track 2: Oh, yeah. Okay.
Speaker:Track 1: Broken.
Speaker:Track 4: He's like part of the reason why there's like only two lightweight IMAX cameras right now.
Speaker:Track 2: Didn't, was it you who said that we should stop building bombs and start building
Speaker:Track 2: IMAX cameras? Someone was saying that.
Speaker:Track 1: Stop.
Speaker:Track 4: I don't know if I said that, but it seems close to my sentiments.
Speaker:Track 1: Stop building bombs and start building IMAX cameras.
Speaker:Track 3: I mean, if you're going to go that way, you need to build IMAX theaters because
Speaker:Track 3: there's like five in the country that could actually play 70 millimeter IMAX.
Speaker:Track 4: I've definitely mentioned about like the fact that like it's not a like our
Speaker:Track 4: society has way higher priorities, but we got to do something about fucking
Speaker:Track 4: being able to watch figure formats like 70 millimeter and shit like that.
Speaker:Track 4: I did say that like we got way bigger priorities, but like something needs to
Speaker:Track 4: be done about this shit. I mean, I want to watch IMAX.
Speaker:Track 3: That's literally what I did for a living was designing theaters for that kind of stuff.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah, I just want to watch 70 mil format at home.
Speaker:Track 3: I don't care.
Speaker:Track 4: If i got black bars on the side give me the fucking.
Speaker:Track 3: Format no there are people who have those setups in their homes but it's curtains
Speaker:Track 3: that come around come down i used to design theaters for a living and i've had
Speaker:Track 3: to design around imax enhanced on disney plus the word.
Speaker:Track 1: You're looking for.
Speaker:Track 3: Um is.
Speaker:Track 1: Synodical uh it was coined in the 16th century um it is it is it means cunning betrayal and deceit,
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah. Which is funny.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah, I always think it's synonymous. Same thing.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, like synonymous, or the word synonym in and of itself,
Speaker:Track 1: I think probably has roots in that, because I'm not looking up the etymology of synonym.
Speaker:Track 1: But I assume it probably has something, some roots in that.
Speaker:Track 4: I thought you were.
Speaker:Track 1: No, I looked up synonymous.
Speaker:Track 3: He was trying to figure out. He was trying to show me a solid and finding the
Speaker:Track 3: word that came out of Dante's Inferno.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah, and I was pushing him about it, because I like to fuck with him.
Speaker:Track 1: I'm sure that the. the i appreciate i'm sure that the the etymology of that
Speaker:Track 1: is somehow rooted in the fact that synonyms are basically other words masking
Speaker:Track 1: as other words you know like almost it's like layers on another word um,
Speaker:Track 1: my personal take on uh 70 millimeter uh and all of that is that we don't fucking need it,
Speaker:Track 1: i don't think we need imax cameras or imax films i think they're unnecessary
Speaker:Track 1: uh which is like my biggest like,
Speaker:Track 1: to to to go back to like why like,
Speaker:Track 1: i started all and i'm like why are we talking about this and like part of it
Speaker:Track 1: is you know like i've i personally wanted to talk about this movie because i
Speaker:Track 1: felt like like i said like this is an actual interpretation like an american
Speaker:Track 1: you know this is the truest american or western
Speaker:Track 1: interpretation of the odyssey i think,
Speaker:Track 1: and in comparison to like Nolan's, which I think is just an ego project.
Speaker:Track 1: It's just an ego project.
Speaker:Track 1: And that man, and that, that man, and like, I, I,
Speaker:Track 1: I am historically, like, I've enjoyed a great many of Christopher Nolan's films.
Speaker:Track 1: I like Christopher Nolan movies, some of them.
Speaker:Track 1: The Prestige is one of my, like, all-time favorite movies. I love that movie.
Speaker:Track 1: We recorded it, and we— Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: Fair.
Speaker:Track 1: I fucking love that movie. I think Memento is an amazing—I think it's one of,
Speaker:Track 1: the—it is also a great movie.
Speaker:Track 1: I really enjoy his Batman films,
Speaker:Track 1: though I do think Batman is kind of like a special case. Like you can't really,
Speaker:Track 1: count it in certain ways because there's so many like,
Speaker:Track 1: so many things tied into Batman. So it's like you can only do so much with it.
Speaker:Track 1: So, you know, but like the first thing I thought when I was,
Speaker:Track 1: when I heard about this movie was like, okay, well how, and now how,
Speaker:Track 1: how is Christopher Nolan going to make an Odyssey movie where it's about himself?
Speaker:Track 1: Because that's all it has gotten over the years. It's just, everything's just
Speaker:Track 1: more and more about him and his own shit.
Speaker:Track 1: And like what he thinks and how he sees art. And like all of that,
Speaker:Track 1: that's all it is to the point where like, and like, I,
Speaker:Track 1: I think that he is in many ways, you know, like they say, like,
Speaker:Track 1: you know, Trump is a, a rich man for a stupid person to a stupid person.
Speaker:Track 1: And to me, like, no one has become, you know, the, the ignorant,
Speaker:Track 1: and I mean ignorant, like, not like in a negative way, but like the person who doesn't.
Speaker:Track 1: engage with like things in a certain way like their version of like an auteur
Speaker:Track 1: like their version of like you know,
Speaker:Track 1: an art an artistic director and it's he's not he makes big budget shit and breaks
Speaker:Track 1: cameras i mean first of all.
Speaker:Track 1: I'm ward i'm i'm all right you ward you go.
Speaker:Track 4: Would you say that he's a bard for a civilization at dusk,
Speaker:Track 4: not original from me that is a interview he had with a chinese scholar who hit
Speaker:Track 4: him with some like very serious questions and he didn't really have any answers,
Speaker:Track 4: like why did you christianize your interpretation and adaptation of the odyssey,
Speaker:Track 4: there's no themes of redemption in the original why did you.
Speaker:Track 1: Add them yeah i could yeah no totally yeah that's definitely an that is a that
Speaker:Track 1: is an Excellent. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker:Track 4: Read a bull interview. Link it in the show notes, Evan.
Speaker:Track 2: I've read that one too, actually.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, no, I like that a lot. I would agree. And like the fact that like,
Speaker:Track 1: and like I always say, he's basically like the tech bro of the movie industry
Speaker:Track 1: now because like now like he really just, what does he talk about? What does he care about?
Speaker:Track 1: Fucking IMAX, filming an IMAX. I'm sorry.
Speaker:Track 1: I learned with the Odyssey, along with Tom Holland, that IMAX cameras could
Speaker:Track 1: only film for three minutes at a time.
Speaker:Track 1: How the fuck do you get a good performance out of a fucking actor three minutes at a time?
Speaker:Track 1: I'm sorry.
Speaker:Track 3: Well, it's so much so that they put so much time. Like, Matt Damon,
Speaker:Track 3: so now that Spider-Man's out, you know, John Bernthal, Zendaya,
Speaker:Track 3: and Tom Holland, who are all three in this movie, had had to,
Speaker:Track 3: like, stop promoting the Odyssey and start promote Spider-Man.
Speaker:Track 3: So it's just been Matt Damon and Sharice Throne. But, like, every single thing
Speaker:Track 3: I saw leading up to Spider-Man coming out, they were only talking about how
Speaker:Track 3: they had to do these weird mirrors around, like, three mirrors in front of the IMAX camera.
Speaker:Track 3: so you can see the person on the other side and semi get a feeling of the emotion
Speaker:Track 3: that they're presenting because you can't even see each other while you're on there.
Speaker:Track 3: And the cameras are so loud, they had to build this like soundproof box around
Speaker:Track 3: it that's like 18 feet long and four feet thick and have these guys around.
Speaker:Track 3: It's like, yeah, visually it's impressive. Like I saw it in IMAX.
Speaker:Track 3: It was an incredible visual, but like, what are we really doing with this?
Speaker:Track 2: It's empty.
Speaker:Track 4: They're like the size of trucks. That's crazy. Like the non-lightweight ones,
Speaker:Track 4: which there's only two of thanks to fucking nolan um yeah they're like fucking trucks.
Speaker:Track 1: This is the same sentiment that drives the people behind that they're they're
Speaker:Track 1: driving the notion of creating art with ai they forget that the point of art,
Speaker:Track 1: is the human connection the human story the point of art is the emotion not the fucking,
Speaker:Track 1: the cost of the technology behind it it's not that it looks like the point of
Speaker:Track 1: a movie is not that it looks just,
Speaker:Track 1: gigantic and like you could see every pore on the actor's face i don't care
Speaker:Track 1: about seeing all of that perfect i want to see the emotion,
Speaker:Track 1: and the actor is what's bringing that not your fucking camera again we go back
Speaker:Track 1: to there's no reason to remaster oh brother where are thou.
Speaker:Track 4: Oh good bookend yeah like i can absolutely like appreciate like working around
Speaker:Track 4: the limitations of like your medium and appreciating the technical aspects but like,
Speaker:Track 4: Dog, if your movie is bullshit and terrible, I don't care if I can see the pores on their faces.
Speaker:Track 1: And I think you're not, he's not working around the limitations of his medium.
Speaker:Track 1: He's introducing difficulties, new limitations, purely for the purpose of braggadocio, the ego.
Speaker:Track 3: And it's so interesting you say that because like there's two movies out in
Speaker:Track 3: theaters right now that I think argue exactly what you're trying to argue right
Speaker:Track 3: now. So it's like, I'm going to do one big picture one, like big budget one and one smaller one.
Speaker:Track 3: So like Spider-Man, you know, you can say what you want about that movie,
Speaker:Track 3: but you have Daniel Destin Cretton. I think that's right.
Speaker:Track 3: You know, they brought in and did actual practical web swinging and rope work
Speaker:Track 3: and everything, but it made it.
Speaker:Track 3: a more realistic performance and it made it more true to life great you know
Speaker:Track 3: they didn't just do it for the sake of doing it to make it harder there was
Speaker:Track 3: a reason behind it and they thought it would make the movie better which i thought it did,
Speaker:Track 3: and then you go on the opposite end of the spectrum i don't know what this budget
Speaker:Track 3: is i know evan saw it i saw it on letterboxd but um teenage sex at camp,
Speaker:Track 3: teenage sex and death at camp miasmo i saw that last night and it's you know
Speaker:Track 3: they have matte paintings all throughout that movie and it's all very personal
Speaker:Track 3: they have you know super close-ups of um,
Speaker:Track 3: hannah einbinder and jillian anderson and it's like it's all about their,
Speaker:Track 3: their their performances and you know what's not being said super fascinating
Speaker:Track 3: so it's like it gives me hope that there are still filmmakers i can't remember
Speaker:Track 3: the writer and director of this movie um i really went and saw it for jillian
Speaker:Track 3: anderson and hannah einbinder,
Speaker:Track 3: yes thank you um but it gives me hope that there are still people like that out there
Speaker:Track 3: and people like daniel dustin critton who had the keys to the car of these big
Speaker:Track 3: things and going you know what i'm going to do something other people haven't
Speaker:Track 3: done and make this more real and make this more grounded so it feels like something
Speaker:Track 3: you can connect to versus just i'm going to make this hard for the sake of being hard.
Speaker:Track 1: Or we could just we could just go like the easiest thing obsession with what
Speaker:Track 1: was the budget obsession again.
Speaker:Track 3: 750 000.
Speaker:Track 1: Under a million dollars like and.
Speaker:Track 3: That i think theater is going to have a big comeback like as ai because as they
Speaker:Track 3: start actually making movies with ai i think we're going to see like theater
Speaker:Track 3: and Broadway and community theater become the de facto entertainment again or concerts.
Speaker:Track 3: Like people are going to concerts again because you crave the real,
Speaker:Track 3: like you, you hit it on the head earlier. Like art is the human expression.
Speaker:Track 3: It's the human connection.
Speaker:Track 3: And I think we're going to go back to live performances.
Speaker:Track 1: I'm driving to Tennessee to see a concert. Like two weeks or like three weeks.
Speaker:Track 1: but yeah that.
Speaker:Track 2: Was a good.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah,
Speaker:Track 1: I've gone like, and I think at a certain point, Nolan understood that.
Speaker:Track 1: I think he understood that with Memento.
Speaker:Track 1: I think he understood that with Prestige. I think the Prestige is.
Speaker:Track 3: Insomnia.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah. I think. Yeah. Yes. Insomnia. I haven't seen Insomnia a long time,
Speaker:Track 1: but that movie sticks with you. And that is just. Yeah.
Speaker:Track 4: So good.
Speaker:Track 1: But like, I think the Prestige, the interpersonal, the way he played the interpersonal
Speaker:Track 1: relationships of Prestige really says a lot.
Speaker:Track 1: And he has, I think, gone so far from that and has completely, he's lost at the sauce.
Speaker:Track 3: You started to get it back in Interstellar and then it went away because.
Speaker:Track 1: It's Interstellar.
Speaker:Track 3: That's a good point.
Speaker:Track 1: Interstellar's too.
Speaker:Track 4: I feel like he got lucky with Interstellar
Speaker:Track 4: and then just continued on his track of, oh, I'm one big name.
Speaker:Track 4: I don't really deal with people anymore. What did he do after Interstellar?
Speaker:Track 4: I don't understand inter-personal relationships because I just tell people what to do.
Speaker:Track 3: See, I love Tenet, but that's just because, you know, pandemic is the first,
Speaker:Track 3: I got to drive an hour to go see it because it was, there's one county near
Speaker:Track 3: me that was open during the pandemic because the numbers went down.
Speaker:Track 3: So I went and saw it, but Dunkirk.
Speaker:Track 1: Dunkirk, yeah. And that was on, that was on, because that was, was the.
Speaker:Track 3: I think Dunkirk's is overrated. I think it's probably his most super rated movie.
Speaker:Track 3: Kirk.
Speaker:Track 4: Done him right in the neck.
Speaker:Track 3: You didn't listen to Wu-Tang. Protecting your neck.
Speaker:Track 4: Nope.
Speaker:Track 1: Dunkirk was...
Speaker:Track 1: Was that distributed? Yeah. Was that?
Speaker:Track 3: That would have still been Warner. He only did the one movie.
Speaker:Track 3: He did Tenet. So the only movie... No, it wasn't Tenet. Did he do something between Tenet and this?
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer was Paramount. That's the only movie he did that
Speaker:Track 3: was not with Warner Brothers. And then he went back to him for The Odyssey.
Speaker:Track 1: No. Yeah. Oppenheimer's Universal.
Speaker:Track 3: That's right.
Speaker:Track 1: Dunkirk and Tendon were Warner Brothers, Interstellar's Paramount,
Speaker:Track 1: and then Oppenheimer and Odyssey are Universal.
Speaker:Track 3: I thought he was with Warner longer than that.
Speaker:Track 1: It's Paramount. It's Paramount, Warner Brothers. It's that time when they were kind of...
Speaker:Track 3: There's also, I think he just had a first look at the time. Not the...
Speaker:Track 1: It was during the time when Paramount and Warner were kind of like...
Speaker:Track 1: They were, whatever, linked together differently.
Speaker:Track 1: Hell, this shit works. You know how these things.
Speaker:Track 2: Um all right well any any any oh brother where art thou final thoughts.
Speaker:Track 3: It's a great.
Speaker:Track 1: Movie yes fantastic you don't need
Speaker:Track 1: you don't need to go watch no one's ego stroke just fucking watch this,
Speaker:Track 1: this exists about our culture.
Speaker:Track 2: You didn't have to break any imax.
Speaker:Track 1: Cameras zero imax cameras were kill we're broken no amex cameras were killed
Speaker:Track 1: in the making of this film.
Speaker:Track 2: The frog was okay.
Speaker:Track 1: So the last time I watched this was my wife's first time watching it.
Speaker:Track 1: I was like, you know, I was like, you gotta, you gotta see. I'm like,
Speaker:Track 1: cause she's like, I never seen it. I was like, oh, you gotta see it.
Speaker:Track 1: I was like, I don't, I watched so many things that Jackie just like ignores
Speaker:Track 1: when I'm watching stuff or like I watched her and she like falls asleep.
Speaker:Track 1: If she looked at my letterbox, she'd be amazed at all the movies I've seen.
Speaker:Track 1: She's like, what the fuck? When did you watch this?
Speaker:Track 1: but when this scene where he throws the frog at the tree she was horrified she
Speaker:Track 1: was why did he have to do that,
Speaker:Track 1: so mean I'm like yeah she was distraught she was distraught at that.
Speaker:Track 3: I've got nothing.
Speaker:Track 2: Else alright well Mike thank you for coming on thanks for having me left with
Speaker:Track 2: the Jector for myself Bill Ward go watch Oh Brother Where Art Thou.
Speaker:Track 1: I have no hair.
Speaker:Track 2: Man.
Speaker:Track 4: If you want to watch Nolan's The Odyssey, pirate it.
Speaker:Track 3: There you go, that's fair.
Speaker:Track 2: Pirate it in 70mm IMAX and watch it on your phone.
Speaker:Track 1: Oh my god.
Speaker:Track 4: That's the way to fucking do it. I saw it like Nolan intended.
Speaker:Track 3: Did you see all the memes of that?
Speaker:Track 2: There's one with a pregnancy test.
Speaker:Track 3: I saw one where it was like obviously Robert Pattinson's in a movie and the
Speaker:Track 3: scene in the first Twilight where she's got a little point and shoot camera
Speaker:Track 3: and it's like Robert Pattinson's Edward looking at Bella and she's like,
Speaker:Track 3: I'm watching the Odyssey as the intended.
Speaker:Track 3: And it's like, you're watching it on a little point and shoot camera from 2008.
Speaker:Track 3: And he's like, your daddy's not coming home or some shit like that.
Speaker:Track 2: Oh, all right. Well, you've been listening to Left of the Objector.
Speaker:Track 2: We'll catch you next time.
